Conrad Smith won two Rugby World Cups. He marked the best midfielders on earth for a decade. And when he was asked to name the best centre pairing he ever came up against, he did not name a New Zealander.
He named two Springboks. Then he admitted they beat him.
“I don’t think we had their better”
The pairing is Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie. The man conceding the point is one half of the most celebrated midfield New Zealand has produced.
Speaking on The Aftermatch podcast, Smith said the South Africans “sort of had our measure in a few games” — then went further than he needed to. “I don’t think we had their better”, he said, adding it was something he and Ma’a Nonu would never like to admit.
He was not talking only about South Africa either. Smith said he rated them the best combination he faced anywhere — a claim he had made “probably worldwide”, not just about the Springboks.
The part Springbok fans will enjoy most
Smith did not praise them for being big. He praised them for being smart.
What stayed with him about Fourie was the defence. “His defensive reads were incredible”, Smith said — the ability to see where an attack was going and kill it before it arrived. He said it was something he learned from.
Read that again. A two-time World Cup-winning centre, saying he took lessons from the man marking him.
The physical side was simpler. Fourie was “a big guy”, hard to stop once moving, and good at freeing his arms in the tackle to keep the ball alive. Smith gave away size and had one answer: “a low tackle had to get him early”. Go late and the offload was already gone.
He still talks to de Villiers
Here is the detail that says most about this rivalry.
Smith said de Villiers is the opponent he enjoyed playing against most, called him a “bloody nice guy”, and said the two still get on well. Late in both careers they would chat during matches — something Smith says he did with almost no other South African.
Eighty minutes of trying to knock each other over, with a conversation running through the middle of it.
Springboks Duo
De Villiers, of Western Province and the Stormers, went on to captain South Africa and won the World Cup in 2007 before injuries ended his Test career.
Fourie, of the Golden Lions and later the Stormers, was the bigger man and part of that same 2007 squad.
The partnership had a clock on it. Once Fourie left for club rugby in Japan, de Villiers kept going but the pairing was finished — and Smith reckons he then faced “about 10 different combinations” in the Springbok midfield.
| Player | Country | Position | Province | RWC |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jean de Villiers | South Africa | Centre | Western Province / Stormers | 2007 |
| Jaque Fourie | South Africa | Outside centre | Golden Lions / Stormers | 2007 |
| Ma’a Nonu | New Zealand | Second five-eighth | Wellington / Hurricanes | 2011, 2015 |
| Conrad Smith | New Zealand | Centre | Taranaki / Hurricanes | 2011, 2015 |
Two pairs, same shape
Put to him that the midfields mirrored each other — a carrier and an organiser on each side — Smith agreed, but not warmly. “I just never analyze players quite like that”, he said. “But yeah, you’re right.”
What made the Springbok pair work, in his view, was that they complemented each other. Which was exactly what he and Nonu did not yet have.
They wanted each other dropped
Smith and Nonu are remembered as inseparable. They started as rivals.
Both wanted 13. Both wanted to play alongside Tana Umaga. Smith’s solution was for Nonu to move to the wing — a position Nonu “hated”, and told him so to his face. Nonu’s solution was for Smith to go back to Taranaki.
They had been in the same squads since the early 2000s but did not settle as a 12–13 until years later — by which time de Villiers and Fourie were long established. An unfinished pair, running into a finished one.
What changed it was being told by the All Blacks coaches that two good players are not a partnership. So they built one, and Smith’s description is unglamorous: constant, blunt feedback. “I could tell the guy what he was doing wrong. He’d do the same to me.” The skill was saying it so the other man responded instead of sulking.
That, he said, is what defines a good partnership — not avoiding mistakes, but how fast you recover from them.
Which leaves one conclusion. The greatest All Blacks midfield of the modern era was built, in part, because two Springboks kept beating it.
Frequently asked questions
Who did Conrad Smith say was the best midfield he faced?
Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie. He said they had his and Ma’a Nonu’s measure in several Tests and rated them the best combination in world rugby at the time.
What position did Jean de Villiers play?
Centre, mainly inside centre alongside Fourie, though he played on the wing earlier in his career.
How long did de Villiers and Fourie play together?
They were South Africa’s first-choice midfield through the late 2000s, including the 2007 World Cup, until Fourie
moved to club rugby in Japan.
